It is quite interesting how Michelin comes to furan chemistry. They have previously developed adhesive compounds to replace recorcinol based resins used in the tire industry for adhesion for textile cords.Recently they were contacting companies if they would be interested in the FDCA and I saw slides, that they distribute. They offer it as a monomer for synthesis of polyester resins. As a replacement for formaldehyde, PF resins are far from been high value added application in general. And it is really hard to fight formaldehyde, that is roughly 1 euro/kg if you recalculate to the 100% active.
Yeah I think for formaldehyde replacement there is a clear regulatory benefit there and then potentially a big performance benefit too.
I’d I were a federal mogul or fraslee I’d be clamoring to get my hands on some PF made from this stuff and looking at potential opportunities around hexamine free novolac curing systems.
Tony; I will have to read again. One company that has been leading Furanic chemistry for the last 40 years or so is Pennakem https://pennakem.com/ not a flashy start-up, but they have running plants. There are also the Furfural producers, but I don't think they take the molecules too far.
There is a lot of promise in furanics, but we don't seem to be able to drive it to high production rates and low costs. Answering the comment below, under the current business model PEF is a specialty and so is FDCA. Not price matching for some time, if at all. But it may not be needed.
Yeah I think the problem with furfural/furfural alcohol is that the applications are pretty limited.
I’ve seen some polymers using furfural alcohol in them but it’s just so dangerous to handle. A bit of acid and it reacts so violently. To me, that’s the thing holding that older technology back but I’m hopeful the dual handled variants like 5-HMF and FDCA and others are more stable, cost competitive and people find real value in the downstream products.
I know PBF is excellent in comparison to PBT as an engineering plastic too. Table is set.
How low do you think they can get the price down? PET is so cheap, and the routes to biobased EG and BDO are not cheap either. Do you think Avantium or similar would have to match PETs price to capture a significant portion of the PET market?
I think there are options brewing out there for affordable BDO, maybe even biobased hitting cost parity to petroleum based. I’ll try and write about them when they are ready.
Ethylene glycol might be more difficult to make on cost parity since you are competing with ethylene.
On a cost basis here I think for 5-HMF the people who will be able to get it across the line for really competitive commodities will be Archer Daniels Midland, who will be supplying the sugar on the project I described here, if they can scale this technology up I think we have potential for cost competitive furans, maybe not parity, but definitely competitive for speciality applications.
It is quite interesting how Michelin comes to furan chemistry. They have previously developed adhesive compounds to replace recorcinol based resins used in the tire industry for adhesion for textile cords.Recently they were contacting companies if they would be interested in the FDCA and I saw slides, that they distribute. They offer it as a monomer for synthesis of polyester resins. As a replacement for formaldehyde, PF resins are far from been high value added application in general. And it is really hard to fight formaldehyde, that is roughly 1 euro/kg if you recalculate to the 100% active.
Yeah I think for formaldehyde replacement there is a clear regulatory benefit there and then potentially a big performance benefit too.
I’d I were a federal mogul or fraslee I’d be clamoring to get my hands on some PF made from this stuff and looking at potential opportunities around hexamine free novolac curing systems.
Tony; I will have to read again. One company that has been leading Furanic chemistry for the last 40 years or so is Pennakem https://pennakem.com/ not a flashy start-up, but they have running plants. There are also the Furfural producers, but I don't think they take the molecules too far.
There is a lot of promise in furanics, but we don't seem to be able to drive it to high production rates and low costs. Answering the comment below, under the current business model PEF is a specialty and so is FDCA. Not price matching for some time, if at all. But it may not be needed.
Yeah I think the problem with furfural/furfural alcohol is that the applications are pretty limited.
I’ve seen some polymers using furfural alcohol in them but it’s just so dangerous to handle. A bit of acid and it reacts so violently. To me, that’s the thing holding that older technology back but I’m hopeful the dual handled variants like 5-HMF and FDCA and others are more stable, cost competitive and people find real value in the downstream products.
I know PBF is excellent in comparison to PBT as an engineering plastic too. Table is set.
How low do you think they can get the price down? PET is so cheap, and the routes to biobased EG and BDO are not cheap either. Do you think Avantium or similar would have to match PETs price to capture a significant portion of the PET market?
I think there are options brewing out there for affordable BDO, maybe even biobased hitting cost parity to petroleum based. I’ll try and write about them when they are ready.
Ethylene glycol might be more difficult to make on cost parity since you are competing with ethylene.
On a cost basis here I think for 5-HMF the people who will be able to get it across the line for really competitive commodities will be Archer Daniels Midland, who will be supplying the sugar on the project I described here, if they can scale this technology up I think we have potential for cost competitive furans, maybe not parity, but definitely competitive for speciality applications.